Abolish Fedora Project Contributor Agreement #410

Closed
opened 2022-08-03 19:04:26 +00:00 by ref · 55 comments

The FPCA was introduced in ~2010 as a replacement for the controversial Apache-style Fedora ICLA which apparently Red Hat Legal asked Fedora to begin using sometime in the mid-2000s. The FPCA was an important and progressive advance for its time. However, as time went on (in large part growing out of Fedora's experience) Red Hat retreated from its partial flirtation with use of contributor license agreements for FOSS projects. Red Hat never used anything like the FPCA for any other project (although CentOS has some informal contribution guidelines that are based on the FPCA). Today Red Hat deliberately does not use CLAs or other types of contributor agreements (apart from the DCO) for projects as a matter of legal policy. Fedora, as a project closely connected to Red Hat, is the exception.

There have been some (at least theoretical) problems associated with the FPCA. It hasn't been clear (to me at least) whether it is supposed to extend to all Fedora-related project activity, thus I think the FPCA may in some cases lead to less certainty about licensing of contributions rather than more certainty The concept of "default licenses" has led to some interpretive problems for the licenses in question. It is not really clear whether the default licensing feature even applies to non-explicitly-licensed code contributions to repositories that are pretty clearly under a particular open source license. The specific issue of licensing of spec files is not really super important and could be handled in various other ways.

I recommend getting rid of the FPCA in favor of a looser set of guidelines around licensing of contributions that would cover all Fedora contributors, and perhaps a recommendation that Fedora-related projects use the DCO (Signed-off-by:) practice.

The FPCA was introduced in ~2010 as a replacement for the controversial Apache-style Fedora ICLA which apparently Red Hat Legal asked Fedora to begin using sometime in the mid-2000s. The FPCA was an important and progressive advance for its time. However, as time went on (in large part growing out of Fedora's experience) Red Hat retreated from its partial flirtation with use of contributor license agreements for FOSS projects. Red Hat never used anything like the FPCA for any other project (although CentOS has some informal contribution guidelines that are based on the FPCA). Today Red Hat deliberately does not use CLAs or other types of contributor agreements (apart from the DCO) for projects as a matter of legal policy. Fedora, as a project closely connected to Red Hat, is the exception. There have been some (at least theoretical) problems associated with the FPCA. It hasn't been clear (to me at least) whether it is supposed to extend to all Fedora-related project activity, thus I think the FPCA may in some cases lead to less certainty about licensing of contributions rather than more certainty The concept of "default licenses" has led to some interpretive problems for the licenses in question. It is not really clear whether the default licensing feature even applies to non-explicitly-licensed code contributions to repositories that are pretty clearly under a particular open source license. The specific issue of licensing of spec files is not really super important and could be handled in various other ways. I recommend getting rid of the FPCA in favor of a looser set of guidelines around licensing of contributions that would cover all Fedora contributors, and perhaps a recommendation that Fedora-related projects use the DCO (Signed-off-by:) practice.

I've created a topic on Fedora Discussion for this ticket.

Please keep this ticket focused. Discuss there, and record votes and decisions here. Thanks!

I've created a [topic on Fedora Discussion](https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-tickets-ticket-410-abolish-fedora-project-contributor-agreement/41095) for this ticket. Please keep this ticket focused. Discuss there, and record votes and decisions here. Thanks!

@ref can you please address the comments in the Discussion thread.

Several Council members have raised concerns and indicated opposition to the proposal. Alternatively, we can close this as deferred.

@ref can you please address the comments in the [Discussion thread](https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-tickets-ticket-410-abolish-fedora-project-contributor-agreement/41095/). Several Council members have raised concerns and indicated opposition to the proposal. Alternatively, we can close this as deferred.

Metadata Update from @bcotton:

  • Issue assigned to ref
  • Issue priority set to: Waiting on Reporter (was: Needs Review)
  • Issue tagged with: policies
**Metadata Update from @bcotton**: - Issue assigned to ref - Issue priority set to: Waiting on Reporter (was: Needs Review) - Issue tagged with: policies

Metadata Update from @bcotton:

  • Issue close_status updated to: deferred
  • Issue status updated to: Closed (was: Open)
**Metadata Update from @bcotton**: - Issue close_status updated to: deferred - Issue status updated to: Closed (was: Open)
Author

Metadata Update from @ref:

  • Issue status updated to: Open (was: Closed)
**Metadata Update from @ref**: - Issue status updated to: Open (was: Closed)
Author

Hi, I am reopening this ticket and I have responded to a bunch of the comments in the referenced Fedora Discussion thread.

Hi, I am reopening this ticket and I have responded to a bunch of the comments in the referenced Fedora Discussion thread.
Owner

Metadata Update from @jflory7:

  • Issue priority set to: Needs Review (was: Waiting on Reporter)
**Metadata Update from @jflory7**: - Issue priority set to: Needs Review (was: Waiting on Reporter)

Option b:

  • Convert FPCA text to a Policy and remove the agreement text from FAS
  • FAS will need an update to support some kind of "I am a Contributor" CAPTCHA and Council will raise a Fedora Infra ticket for this work to be done
Option b: - Convert FPCA text to a Policy and remove the agreement text from FAS - FAS will need an update to support some kind of "I am a Contributor" CAPTCHA and Council will raise a Fedora Infra ticket for this work to be done

+1, option b

+1, option b
Owner

+1 Option B

+1 Option B

Option b:

  • Convert FPCA text to a Policy and remove the agreement text from FAS
  • FAS will need an update to support some kind of "I am a Contributor" CAPTCHA and Council will raise a Fedora Infra ticket for this work to be done

+1

> Option b: > - Convert FPCA text to a Policy and remove the agreement text from FAS > - FAS will need an update to support some kind of "I am a Contributor" CAPTCHA and Council will raise a Fedora Infra ticket for this work to be done +1

+1 Option B

+1 Option B
Owner

+1, option b

+1, option b

+1 Option B

+1 Option B
Owner

+1

+1
Owner

Option b:

  • Convert FPCA text to a Policy and remove the agreement text from FAS
  • FAS will need an update to support some kind of "I am a Contributor" CAPTCHA and Council will raise a Fedora Infra ticket for this work to be done

+1

> Option b: > - Convert FPCA text to a Policy and remove the agreement text from FAS > - FAS will need an update to support some kind of "I am a Contributor" CAPTCHA and Council will raise a Fedora Infra ticket for this work to be done +1

+1

+1

+1 Option b

+1 Option b

Point of order. This is subject to the Policy Change Policy and I see no evidence that's been followed here.

Point of order. This is subject to the [Policy Change Policy](https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/policy-change-policy/) and I see no evidence that's been followed here.
Owner

Excellent point Ben, thank you for bringing this to our attention. In order to comply with the policy changes policy, the votes of the council in this context can only be applied to the approval of a proposal to abolish the FPCA. This proposal will have to be publicly communicated with the fedora community first, in order to be in a position to accept this change or not.

A proposal will be written and communicated by the council to the fedora community, and this ticket will remain open until a decision, inclusive of feedback from the wider community, has been reached.

Excellent point Ben, thank you for bringing this to our attention. In order to comply with the policy changes policy, the votes of the council in this context can only be applied to the *approval* of a *proposal* to abolish the FPCA. This proposal will have to be publicly communicated with the fedora community first, in order to be in a position to accept this change or not. A proposal will be written and communicated by the council to the fedora community, and this ticket will remain open until a decision, inclusive of feedback from the wider community, has been reached.
Owner

This dropped off the councils to-do from last year, but we are still in favour of converting the FPCA to a policy instead and use a CAPTCHA in FAS. @mattdm will work on this and we will use the policy change policy process to forward this work.

This dropped off the councils to-do from last year, but we are still in favour of converting the FPCA to a policy instead and use a CAPTCHA in FAS. @mattdm will work on this and we will use the policy change policy process to forward this work.
Owner

Metadata Update from @amoloney:

  • Issue priority set to: None (was: 1)
**Metadata Update from @amoloney**: - Issue priority set to: None (was: 1)
Owner

Metadata Update from @amoloney:

  • Issue assigned to mattdm (was: ref)
**Metadata Update from @amoloney**: - Issue assigned to mattdm (was: ref)
Owner

@mattdm is no longer a member of Fedora Council. Therefore, I am unassigning this ticket and labeling as Needs Review so that we can identify a new owner.

@mattdm is no longer a member of Fedora Council. Therefore, I am unassigning this ticket and labeling as `Needs Review` so that we can identify a new owner.
Owner

Metadata Update from @jflory7:

  • Assignee reset
**Metadata Update from @jflory7**: - Assignee reset
Owner

Metadata Update from @jflory7:

  • Issue tagged with: Needs Review
**Metadata Update from @jflory7**: - Issue tagged with: Needs Review

Looks ike this was agreed on and not actioned.

Looks ike this was agreed on and not actioned.
Owner

Ok this is the current summary for this ticket, brought to you by Google Gemini.

Prompts used: Summarize this ticket -> Summarise the discussion thread -> Summarise both ticket and discussion.

Output:

The Proposal: Why it was raised

The ticket was opened by Red Hat legal counsel Richard Fontana (@ref). He proposed abolishing the Fedora Project Contributor Agreement (FPCA) in favor of looser licensing guidelines or a simple Developer Certificate of Origin (DCO / "Signed-off-by" process).

His primary argument was that Red Hat had shifted its legal policy away from Contributor License Agreements (CLAs) for almost all other open-source projects. He argued that the FPCA was an outdated exception that created unnecessary corporate confusion, left ambiguity about whether it extended to all Fedora-related activities, and caused interpretive problems regarding "default licenses."

The Community Backlash: Why the Council hesitated

When the conversation moved to the Fedora Discussion forum, the Fedora Council and community members met the proposal with significant skepticism and several -1 (opposing) stances due to practical and legal complications:

Ripping Out Infrastructure: The FPCA group (historically called the "CLA" group) is woven into Fedora’s systems. For example, the elections system checks for an FPCA signature as a metric of project commitment to determine voting eligibility. Ripping it out would require replacing those verification checks across multiple platforms.

The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead.

The Gap in Non-Code Contributions: The DCO model works well for code (like the Linux Kernel), but Fedora has a massive community of non-code contributors creating artwork, badges, event presentations, and documentation. These creative assets are rarely explicitly licensed by authors. The FPCA provides a critical fallback—automatically licensing unannotated content as CC-BY-SA and code as MIT—which protects the project from contributors later pulling their work or demanding royalties.

The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible.

The Lone Point of Agreement

The only major defense of the proposal came from contributors working at large enterprises (such as Meta). They noted that because the FPCA looks like a formal legal agreement, corporate lawyers often insist on vetting it before employees can contribute to Fedora. Replacing it with a non-signature model would undeniably lower the barrier to entry for corporate developers.
Final Outcome

Rather than supporting total abolition, community consensus leaned toward reforming the FPCA instead of killing it—such as updating its defaults (e.g., moving from CC-BY-SA to the less restrictive CC-BY) or modernizing the language to appease corporate legal departments.

Because the proposal faced heavy opposition and required a massive implementation plan that the reporter did not provide, Ben Cotton changed the priority to "Waiting on Reporter" and ultimately closed the ticket as deferred.

Aoifes 2c:
This looks almost accurate, and I would be confident to discuss this ticket from this point with other members of council to see what to do next with it. What it missed was at the Council F2F in Feb 2024, the sitting members at the time voted to convert the FCPA to a policy and use a CAPTCHA in FAS. That idea is worth revisiting to see if:

  • Does this policy switch interfere with the elections setup?
  • What are the technical implementations if we proceed with this? Do we have people in council to actively do this? Do we need an infra ticket?
  • Other questions here
Ok this is the current summary for this ticket, brought to you by Google Gemini. Prompts used: Summarize this ticket -> Summarise the discussion thread -> Summarise both ticket and discussion. Output: **The Proposal:** Why it was raised The ticket was opened by Red Hat legal counsel Richard Fontana (@ref). He proposed abolishing the Fedora Project Contributor Agreement (FPCA) in favor of looser licensing guidelines or a simple Developer Certificate of Origin (DCO / "Signed-off-by" process). His primary argument was that Red Hat had shifted its legal policy away from Contributor License Agreements (CLAs) for almost all other open-source projects. He argued that the FPCA was an outdated exception that created unnecessary corporate confusion, left ambiguity about whether it extended to all Fedora-related activities, and caused interpretive problems regarding "default licenses." **The Community Backlash:** Why the Council hesitated When the conversation moved to the Fedora Discussion forum, the Fedora Council and community members met the proposal with significant skepticism and several -1 (opposing) stances due to practical and legal complications: **Ripping Out Infrastructure:** The FPCA group (historically called the "CLA" group) is woven into Fedora’s systems. For example, the elections system checks for an FPCA signature as a metric of project commitment to determine voting eligibility. Ripping it out would require replacing those verification checks across multiple platforms. **The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate:** Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead. **The Gap in Non-Code Contributions:** The DCO model works well for code (like the Linux Kernel), but Fedora has a massive community of non-code contributors creating artwork, badges, event presentations, and documentation. These creative assets are rarely explicitly licensed by authors. The FPCA provides a critical fallback—automatically licensing unannotated content as CC-BY-SA and code as MIT—which protects the project from contributors later pulling their work or demanding royalties. **The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades:** The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible. **The Lone Point of Agreement** The only major defense of the proposal came from contributors working at large enterprises (such as Meta). They noted that because the FPCA looks like a formal legal agreement, corporate lawyers often insist on vetting it before employees can contribute to Fedora. Replacing it with a non-signature model would undeniably lower the barrier to entry for corporate developers. Final Outcome Rather than supporting total abolition, community consensus leaned toward reforming the FPCA instead of killing it—such as updating its defaults (e.g., moving from CC-BY-SA to the less restrictive CC-BY) or modernizing the language to appease corporate legal departments. Because the proposal faced heavy opposition and required a massive implementation plan that the reporter did not provide, Ben Cotton changed the priority to "Waiting on Reporter" and ultimately closed the ticket as deferred. Aoifes 2c: This looks almost accurate, and I would be confident to discuss this ticket from this point with other members of council to see what to do next with it. What it missed was at the Council F2F in Feb 2024, the sitting members at the time voted to convert the FCPA to a policy and use a CAPTCHA in FAS. That idea is worth revisiting to see if: - Does this policy switch interfere with the elections setup? - What are the technical implementations if we proceed with this? Do we have people in council to actively do this? Do we need an infra ticket? - Other questions here
Author

I confess that I didn't look closely at the discussion that followed initiating this ticket (indeed I still haven't but am relying on this summary). I think I mainly proposed this because I wanted to make clear as a matter of record that Red Hat is not forcing Fedora to use a contributor agreement -- that in fact Fedora is doing so despite Red Hat's preferences, which may be fine in some sense. Over the years I saw pro-CLA forces use the existence of the FPCA to argue, inaccurately, that "Red Hat endorses CLAs" when in fact Red Hat was a leading voice in the (substantially successful IMO) anti-CLA movement that started around 2010.

There are a few points that concern me so even if they're not really that relevant anymore I want to comment on them:

The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead.

This is at best partially correct. You do need some sort of explicit licensing notices somehow, but it could reasonably be done in most cases at the repository level or via some sort of visible general policy document. To say that expecting explicit licensing for "every single repository" is administratively burdensome seems wrong - it's what is baseline acceptable as good practice in open source development. To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons.

The Gap in Non-Code Contributions: The DCO model works well for code (like the Linux Kernel), but Fedora has a massive community of non-code contributors creating artwork, badges, event presentations, and documentation. These creative assets are rarely explicitly licensed by authors. The FPCA provides a critical fallback—automatically licensing unannotated content as CC-BY-SA and code as MIT—which protects the project from contributors later pulling their work or demanding royalties.

Okay but this can be handled in other ways besides the traditional use of the DCO, or a contributor agreement, etc. Plenty of projects deal with this (even if the situation is less "massive"). Has anyone in Fedora's history tried to pull back their work and demand royalties? (I realize you could argue that, if not, this was a sign that the FPCA and the predecessor CLA were working as expected.)

The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible.

I mean, it would become less convenient perhaps, but not legally impossible, and there is a cost to the project adopting such updating mechanisms that bypass direct agreement from the contributor.

Rather than supporting total abolition, community consensus leaned toward reforming the FPCA instead of killing it—such as updating its defaults (e.g., moving from CC-BY-SA to the less restrictive CC-BY) or modernizing the language to appease corporate legal departments.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why should Fedora have a goal of "appeasing corporate legal departments"?

I confess that I didn't look closely at the discussion that followed initiating this ticket (indeed I still haven't but am relying on this summary). I think I mainly proposed this because I wanted to make clear as a matter of record that Red Hat is not forcing Fedora to use a contributor agreement -- that in fact Fedora is doing so despite Red Hat's preferences, which may be fine in some sense. Over the years I saw pro-CLA forces use the existence of the FPCA to argue, inaccurately, that "Red Hat endorses CLAs" when in fact Red Hat was a leading voice in the (substantially successful IMO) anti-CLA movement that started around 2010. There are a few points that concern me so even if they're not really that relevant anymore I want to comment on them: > The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead. This is at best partially correct. You do need *some* sort of explicit licensing notices *somehow*, but it could reasonably be done in most cases at the repository level or via some sort of visible general policy document. To say that expecting explicit licensing for "every single repository" is administratively burdensome seems wrong - it's what is baseline acceptable as good practice in open source development. To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons. > The Gap in Non-Code Contributions: The DCO model works well for code (like the Linux Kernel), but Fedora has a massive community of non-code contributors creating artwork, badges, event presentations, and documentation. These creative assets are rarely explicitly licensed by authors. The FPCA provides a critical fallback—automatically licensing unannotated content as CC-BY-SA and code as MIT—which protects the project from contributors later pulling their work or demanding royalties. Okay but this can be handled in other ways besides the traditional use of the DCO, or a contributor agreement, etc. Plenty of projects deal with this (even if the situation is less "massive"). Has anyone in Fedora's history tried to pull back their work and demand royalties? (I realize you could argue that, if not, this was a sign that the FPCA and the predecessor CLA were working as expected.) > The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible. I mean, it would become less convenient perhaps, but not legally impossible, and there is a cost to the project adopting such updating mechanisms that bypass direct agreement from the contributor. > Rather than supporting total abolition, community consensus leaned toward reforming the FPCA instead of killing it—such as updating its defaults (e.g., moving from CC-BY-SA to the less restrictive CC-BY) or modernizing the language to appease corporate legal departments. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why should Fedora have a goal of "appeasing corporate legal departments"?

I suspect people would be unhappy about moving to less restrictive licenses for our artwork too. It's a pretty strong norm to use share-alike licenses for free culture content, which is why Fedora uses it.

I suspect people would be unhappy about moving to _less_ restrictive licenses for our artwork too. It's a pretty strong norm to use share-alike licenses for free culture content, which is why Fedora uses it.
Owner

Wait, pause ⏸️ I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0. To reiterate what I think is a shared belief, the goal is not to change licensing terms; it is a change in how the protections for Free Software and Open Source, partially encoded now into the FPCA, are upheld in a different agreement flow and user grant of consent with FAS.

@ref wrote in #410 (comment):

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead.

This is at best partially correct. You do need some sort of explicit licensing notices somehow, but it could reasonably be done in most cases at the repository level or via some sort of visible general policy document. To say that expecting explicit licensing for "every single repository" is administratively burdensome seems wrong - it's what is baseline acceptable as good practice in open source development. To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons.

We are discussing policy for Fedora Forge in in #558. I remember when GitLab.com got onto us because they wanted all repositories to have open source licenses, since they granted us free open source community perks. While Pagure never had this requirement, I think people have generally had a practice of licensing works in our hosted repos. However, maybe this is changing now.

Is it worth creating detection and alerting on whether a repo in the Fedora Forge uses an unacceptable license or is missing a license? Do any of these license scanning tools hook into something like Forgejo?

@ref wrote in #410 (comment):

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible.

I mean, it would become less convenient perhaps, but not legally impossible, and there is a cost to the project adopting such updating mechanisms that bypass direct agreement from the contributor.

To split out the change of policy topic from the change of consent mechanism topic, do you mean to say that a vote of contributors would be more powerfully upheld as legitimate, if future revisions were amended to this FPCA-v2 policy?

@ref wrote in #410 (comment):

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

Rather than supporting total abolition, community consensus leaned toward reforming the FPCA instead of killing it—such as updating its defaults (e.g., moving from CC-BY-SA to the less restrictive CC-BY) or modernizing the language to appease corporate legal departments.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why should Fedora have a goal of "appeasing corporate legal departments"?

I bet on Beefy Miracle that someone, somewhere, sometime suggested this in public, and then Gemini assumed it was legitimate. To gain the required trust to make this change of delivery mechanism from the FPCA to a FPCA-v2 mechanism, the actual substance of the current FPCA should be upheld as much as possible. So… no license changes to the default licenses. As a reminder, any repository may license Fedora contributions under any of the Allowed Licenses and this is also acceptable.

Furthermore, a copyleft approach likely aligns best with the values and beliefs of the wider Linux contributor ecosystem, given the kernel upstream itself is a GPLv2 project, as well as many of our various Linux desktop projects.

Wait, pause ⏸️ I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0. To reiterate what I think is a shared belief, the goal is not to change licensing terms; it is a change in how the protections for Free Software and Open Source, partially encoded now into the FPCA, are upheld in a different agreement flow and user grant of consent with FAS. @ref wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1060053: > @amoloney wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1059989: > > > The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead. > > This is at best partially correct. You do need _some_ sort of explicit licensing notices _somehow_, but it could reasonably be done in most cases at the repository level or via some sort of visible general policy document. To say that expecting explicit licensing for "every single repository" is administratively burdensome seems wrong - it's what is baseline acceptable as good practice in open source development. To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons. We are discussing policy for Fedora Forge in in #558. I remember when GitLab.com got onto us because they wanted all repositories to have open source licenses, since they granted us free open source community perks. While Pagure never had this requirement, I think people have generally had a practice of licensing works in our hosted repos. However, maybe this is changing now. Is it worth creating detection and alerting on whether a repo in the Fedora Forge uses an unacceptable license or is missing a license? Do any of these license scanning tools hook into something like Forgejo? @ref wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1060053: > @amoloney wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1059989: > > > The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible. > > I mean, it would become less convenient perhaps, but not legally impossible, and there is a cost to the project adopting such updating mechanisms that bypass direct agreement from the contributor. To split out the change of policy topic from the change of consent mechanism topic, do you mean to say that a vote of contributors would be more powerfully upheld as legitimate, if future revisions _were_ amended to this FPCA-v2 policy? @ref wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1060053: > @amoloney wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1059989: > > > Rather than supporting total abolition, community consensus leaned toward reforming the FPCA instead of killing it—such as updating its defaults (e.g., moving from CC-BY-SA to the less restrictive CC-BY) or modernizing the language to appease corporate legal departments. > > This doesn't make any sense to me. Why should Fedora have a goal of "appeasing corporate legal departments"? I bet on Beefy Miracle that someone, somewhere, sometime suggested this in public, and then Gemini assumed it was legitimate. To gain the required trust to make this change of delivery mechanism from the FPCA to a FPCA-v2 mechanism, the actual substance of the current FPCA should be upheld as much as possible. So… no license changes to the default licenses. As a reminder, any repository may license Fedora contributions under any of the [Allowed Licenses](https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/legal/allowed-licenses/) and this is also acceptable. Furthermore, a copyleft approach likely aligns best with the values and beliefs of the wider Linux contributor ecosystem, given the kernel upstream itself is a GPLv2 project, as well as many of our various Linux desktop projects.
Owner

To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons.

I think this somewhat misses the point. We have 20000+ package repositories, and the overwhelming majority of them have no indication of their license (my educated guess would be ~99.9%: the only package repositories that I've ever seen that use a custom license are for Java packages that originated with the JPackage Project - for example ant - which use a BSD-3-Clause license). Adding explicit licensing information to all those repositories would be a huge amount of churn.

So unless there are actual problems with the current FPCA I would vote against dropping or changing it, just due to the large amount of churn and potential confusion it would cause.

> To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons. I think this somewhat misses the point. We have 20000+ package repositories, and the overwhelming majority of them have no indication of their license (my educated guess would be ~99.9%: the only package repositories that I've ever seen that use a custom license are for Java packages that originated with the JPackage Project - for example [ant](https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/ant/blob/rawhide/f/ant.spec) - which use a BSD-3-Clause license). Adding explicit licensing information to all those repositories would be a huge amount of churn. So unless there are *actual* problems with the current FPCA I would vote against dropping or changing it, just due to the large amount of churn and potential confusion it would cause.
Author

@decathorpe wrote in #410 (comment):

To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons.

I think this somewhat misses the point. We have 20000+ package repositories, and the overwhelming majority of them have no indication of their license (my educated guess would be ~99.9%: the only package repositories that I've ever seen that use a custom license are for Java packages that originated with the JPackage Project - for example ant - which use a BSD-3-Clause license). Adding explicit licensing information to all those repositories would be a huge amount of churn.

I should have clarified, I wasn't thinking of package repositories at all, so the situation is therefore probably not that bad. I do not expect package repositories to have some conventional indication of a repository license, and this is precisely where a well-communicated meta-project-policy (in place of something like the FPCA) can be useful.

@decathorpe wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1061160: > > To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons. > > I think this somewhat misses the point. We have 20000+ package repositories, and the overwhelming majority of them have no indication of their license (my educated guess would be ~99.9%: the only package repositories that I've ever seen that use a custom license are for Java packages that originated with the JPackage Project - for example [ant](https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/ant/blob/rawhide/f/ant.spec) - which use a BSD-3-Clause license). Adding explicit licensing information to all those repositories would be a huge amount of churn. I should have clarified, I wasn't thinking of package repositories at all, so the situation is therefore probably not that bad. I do not expect package repositories to have some conventional indication of a repository license, and this is precisely where a well-communicated meta-project-policy (in place of something like the FPCA) can be useful.
Author

@jflory7 wrote in #410 (comment):

Wait, pause ⏸️ I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0. To reiterate what I think is a shared belief, the goal is not to change licensing terms; it is a change in how the protections for Free Software and Open Source, partially encoded now into the FPCA, are upheld in a different agreement flow and user grant of consent with FAS.

@ref wrote in #410 (comment):

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead.

This is at best partially correct. You do need some sort of explicit licensing notices somehow, but it could reasonably be done in most cases at the repository level or via some sort of visible general policy document. To say that expecting explicit licensing for "every single repository" is administratively burdensome seems wrong - it's what is baseline acceptable as good practice in open source development. To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons.

We are discussing policy for Fedora Forge in in #558. I remember when GitLab.com got onto us because they wanted all repositories to have open source licenses, since they granted us free open source community perks. While Pagure never had this requirement, I think people have generally had a practice of licensing works in our hosted repos. However, maybe this is changing now.

Is it worth creating detection and alerting on whether a repo in the Fedora Forge uses an unacceptable license or is missing a license? Do any of these license scanning tools hook into something like Forgejo?

As I indicate in my reply to @decathorpe, I didn't understand that the "over 35,000" repositories largely referred to Fedora package repositories (though I now see this should have been obvious).

I would submit that the FPCA doesn't give you much that's useful for package repositories. It makes clear that spec files are under the MIT license; fine, but they're pretty thinly copyrightable (I'd argue) to begin with. Other stuff in package repositories would be better treated as subject to the applicable original license (in the case of a copyrightable patch, say) or else is likely not to be copyrightable. It's the things other than package repositories that always troubled me. Does the FPCA apply to any possible Fedora-related repository, no matter where hosted, for example, no matter how tangentially related to Fedora it might be?

@jflory7 wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1060395: > Wait, pause :pause_button: I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0. To reiterate what I think is a shared belief, the goal is not to change licensing terms; it is a change in how the protections for Free Software and Open Source, partially encoded now into the FPCA, are upheld in a different agreement flow and user grant of consent with FAS. > > @ref wrote in #410 (comment): > > > @amoloney wrote in #410 (comment): > > > The Nightmare of Repository Boilerplate: Without a blanket agreement, every single repository, code file, and .spec file would need explicit licensing headers. With over 35,000 Fedora repositories, community members worried this would create massive administrative overhead. > > > > > > This is at best partially correct. You do need _some_ sort of explicit licensing notices _somehow_, but it could reasonably be done in most cases at the repository level or via some sort of visible general policy document. To say that expecting explicit licensing for "every single repository" is administratively burdensome seems wrong - it's what is baseline acceptable as good practice in open source development. To the extent that there are Fedora repositories today that have no indication of licensing on the theory that people can fall back on the FPCA, that is problematic for several reasons. > > We are discussing policy for Fedora Forge in in #558. I remember when GitLab.com got onto us because they wanted all repositories to have open source licenses, since they granted us free open source community perks. While Pagure never had this requirement, I think people have generally had a practice of licensing works in our hosted repos. However, maybe this is changing now. > > Is it worth creating detection and alerting on whether a repo in the Fedora Forge uses an unacceptable license or is missing a license? Do any of these license scanning tools hook into something like Forgejo? As I indicate in my reply to @decathorpe, I didn't understand that the "over 35,000" repositories largely referred to Fedora package repositories (though I now see this should have been obvious). I would submit that the FPCA doesn't give you much that's useful for package repositories. It makes clear that spec files are under the MIT license; fine, but they're pretty thinly copyrightable (I'd argue) to begin with. Other stuff in package repositories would be better treated as subject to the applicable original license (in the case of a copyrightable patch, say) or else is likely not to be copyrightable. It's the things other than package repositories that always troubled me. Does the FPCA apply to any possible Fedora-related repository, no matter where hosted, for example, no matter how tangentially related to Fedora it might be?
Author

@jflory7 wrote in #410 (comment):

@ref wrote in #410 (comment):

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible.

I mean, it would become less convenient perhaps, but not legally impossible, and there is a cost to the project adopting such updating mechanisms that bypass direct agreement from the contributor.

To split out the change of policy topic from the change of consent mechanism topic, do you mean to say that a vote of contributors would be more powerfully upheld as legitimate, if future revisions were amended to this FPCA-v2 policy?

Yes (except I'm not sure what you mean by FPCAv2). Those who have been around for a sufficiently long time may remember the relicensing of Fedora documentation from (gasp) the OPL (without so-called 'options', to be sure) to CC-BY-SA-3.0, which if I remember correctly could have been handled automatically by virtue of the ill-conceived pre-FPCA Fedora CLA which Red Hat apparently imposed upon Fedora in its early days. But the Fedora docs subproject was careful to handle things almost as though no such convenient relicensing mechanism existed.

@jflory7 wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1060395: > @ref wrote in #410 (comment): > > > @amoloney wrote in #410 (comment): > > > The Loss of Retroactive Upgrades: The FPCA allows Fedora to upgrade project-wide default licenses cleanly (as they did when transitioning from CC-BY-SA 3.0 to 4.0). Without it, managing future license updates across decades of mixed content would become legally impossible. > > > > > > I mean, it would become less convenient perhaps, but not legally impossible, and there is a cost to the project adopting such updating mechanisms that bypass direct agreement from the contributor. > > To split out the change of policy topic from the change of consent mechanism topic, do you mean to say that a vote of contributors would be more powerfully upheld as legitimate, if future revisions _were_ amended to this FPCA-v2 policy? Yes (except I'm not sure what you mean by FPCAv2). Those who have been around for a sufficiently long time may remember the relicensing of Fedora documentation from (gasp) the OPL (without so-called 'options', to be sure) to CC-BY-SA-3.0, which if I remember correctly could have been handled automatically by virtue of the ill-conceived pre-FPCA Fedora CLA which Red Hat apparently imposed upon Fedora in its early days. But the Fedora docs subproject was careful to handle things almost as though no such convenient relicensing mechanism existed.

I would submit that the FPCA doesn't give you much that's useful for package repositories. It makes clear that spec files are under the MIT license; fine, but they're pretty thinly copyrightable (I'd argue) to begin with.

Please let's not go there. Packaging is a reflection of the software, and enough things are weird and complicated that it's hard to say something like that firmly without upsetting a lot of people.

Does the FPCA apply to any possible Fedora-related repository, no matter where hosted, for example, no matter how tangentially related to Fedora it might be?

It is technically supposed to apply to pagure.io and now forge.fedoraproject.org. As for other places? It's trickier to argue. But it has implicitly applied to gitlab.com/fedora and gitlab.com/CentOS as well (which are both managed by FAS/FPCA). We've never set up the necessary arrangements to have a similar enforcement for Fedora GitHub organizations, and I am unsure if there is a capability for codeberg.org yet.

> I would submit that the FPCA doesn't give you much that's useful for package repositories. It makes clear that spec files are under the MIT license; fine, but they're pretty thinly copyrightable (I'd argue) to begin with. Please let's not go there. Packaging is a reflection of the software, and enough things are weird and complicated that it's hard to say something like that firmly without upsetting a lot of people. > Does the FPCA apply to any possible Fedora-related repository, no matter where hosted, for example, no matter how tangentially related to Fedora it might be? It is technically supposed to apply to pagure.io and now forge.fedoraproject.org. As for other places? It's trickier to argue. But it has implicitly applied to gitlab.com/fedora and gitlab.com/CentOS as well (which are both managed by FAS/FPCA). We've never set up the necessary arrangements to have a similar enforcement for Fedora GitHub organizations, and I am unsure if there is a capability for codeberg.org yet.
Owner

I guess I'm gonna have to read up on the prior discussion elsewhere... but for the moment..

@ref, its 3 years later.. does the top post here still encode your state of the art thinking as the originator? Just based on the top post here in this ticket... what if we started not by removing the contributor agreement mechanism.. what if we started by introducing a DCO process? Does that do anything useful from your pov? Does introducing a DCO process without making any other changes address some of the ambiguity concerns you presented?

I find the summarization's applicability of a DCO process.. perplexing. We should be able to use/require a DCO process for any git based contribution... whether its code or artwork( i just checked the badge submissions are git commits) or something else. But I am sensitive to the concern that a DCO process would have gaps for any type of contribution that is not a git commit. The wiki pages come to mind just off the top of my head . We'd have to have some other guidance for the non-DCO contributiions, its likely going to be in the same shape as the existing FPCA in terms of how its implemented as a catch all agreement when getting a fas account.

I guess I'm gonna have to read up on the prior discussion elsewhere... but for the moment.. @ref, its 3 years later.. does the top post here still encode your state of the art thinking as the originator? Just based on the top post here in this ticket... what if we started _not_ by removing the contributor agreement mechanism.. what if we started by introducing a DCO process? Does that do anything useful from your pov? Does introducing a DCO process without making any other changes address some of the ambiguity concerns you presented? I find the summarization's applicability of a DCO process.. perplexing. We should be able to use/require a DCO process for any git based contribution... whether its code or artwork( i just checked the badge submissions are git commits) or something else. But I am sensitive to the concern that a DCO process would have gaps for any type of contribution that is not a git commit. The wiki pages come to mind just off the top of my head . We'd have to have some other guidance for the non-DCO contributiions, its likely going to be in the same shape as the existing FPCA in terms of how its implemented as a catch all agreement when getting a fas account.
Author

@jspaleta wrote in #410 (comment):

@ref, its 3 years later.. does the top post here still encode your state of the art thinking as the originator?

Pretty much, but I feel like the main point (the FPCA is now kind of strange, possibly more confusing than helpful, and something I'd contend present-day Red Hat would not want to be associated with) is not being well understood, probably because I mostly didn't say it clearly or explicitly, except for the part about it being confusing.

Just based on the top post here in this ticket... what if we started not by removing the contributor agreement mechanism.. what if we started by introducing a DCO process? Does that do anything useful from your pov? Does introducing a DCO process without making any other changes address some of the ambiguity concerns you presented?

It isn't necessarily a bad idea (I like the DCO myself) but I'm not sure having both the DCO and the FPCA is going to clear everything up. The DCO refers to the (often absent) "license indicated in the file". If there's no license in the file, is the license being certified, as it were, the documented global license of the repository (this is typical open source folk-understanding) or is it the "default license" of the FPCA?

A lot (I think) of Fedora-related projects that are arguably covered by the FPCA use the DCO already.

I find the summarization's applicability of a DCO process.. perplexing. We should be able to use/require a DCO process for any git based contribution... whether its code or artwork( i just checked the badge submissions are git commits) or something else. But I am sensitive to the concern that a DCO process would have gaps for any type of contribution that is not a git commit. The wiki pages come to mind just off the top of my head . We'd have to have some other guidance for the non-DCO contributiions, its likely going to be in the same shape as the existing FPCA in terms of how its implemented as a catch all agreement when getting a fas account.

I think there are other ways you could deal with that besides using the FPCA mechanism.

@jspaleta wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1062701: > @ref, its 3 years later.. does the top post here still encode your state of the art thinking as the originator? Pretty much, but I feel like the main point (the FPCA is now kind of strange, possibly more confusing than helpful, and something I'd contend present-day Red Hat would not want to be associated with) is not being well understood, probably because I mostly didn't say it clearly or explicitly, except for the part about it being confusing. > Just based on the top post here in this ticket... what if we started _not_ by removing the contributor agreement mechanism.. what if we started by introducing a DCO process? Does that do anything useful from your pov? Does introducing a DCO process without making any other changes address some of the ambiguity concerns you presented? It isn't necessarily a bad idea (I like the DCO myself) but I'm not sure having both the DCO and the FPCA is going to clear everything up. The DCO refers to the (often absent) "license indicated in the file". If there's no license in the file, is the license being certified, as it were, the documented global license of the repository (this is typical open source folk-understanding) or is it the "default license" of the FPCA? A lot (I think) of Fedora-related projects that are arguably covered by the FPCA use the DCO already. > I find the summarization's applicability of a DCO process.. perplexing. We should be able to use/require a DCO process for any git based contribution... whether its code or artwork( i just checked the badge submissions are git commits) or something else. But I am sensitive to the concern that a DCO process would have gaps for any type of contribution that is not a git commit. The wiki pages come to mind just off the top of my head . We'd have to have some other guidance for the non-DCO contributiions, its likely going to be in the same shape as the existing FPCA in terms of how its implemented as a catch all agreement when getting a fas account. I think there are other ways you could deal with that besides using the FPCA mechanism.

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

The only major defense of the proposal came from contributors working at large enterprises (such as Meta).

I'd like to ... gently push back against Meta being named here. We have several active contributors and do not see any issue with the FPCA as it stands, as far as I know. And we don't have a problem with projects that require contributor agreements in general.

@amoloney wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1059989: > The only major defense of the proposal came from contributors working at large enterprises (such as Meta). I'd like to ... gently push back against Meta being named here. We have several active contributors and do not see any issue with the FPCA as it stands, as far as I know. And we don't have a problem with projects that require contributor agreements in general.

Why not have the FPCA for code stuff and an agreement that all of your non code work is public domain (or some other license)

Why not have the FPCA for code stuff and an agreement that all of your non code work is public domain (or some other license)

@jflory7 wrote in #410 (comment):

I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0

Given it also did the FUD on Meta (which we deserve as an AI shop, I guess) ... can we... maybe not use AI for things like this? We're wasting people's (especially @ref's) valuable time responding to hallucinations

@jflory7 wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1060395: > I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0 Given it also did the FUD on Meta (which we deserve as an AI shop, I guess) ... can we... maybe *not* use AI for things like this? We're wasting people's (especially @ref's) valuable time responding to hallucinations

@salimma wrote in #410 (comment):

@jflory7 wrote in #410 (comment):

I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0

Given it also did the FUD on Meta (which we deserve as an AI shop, I guess) ... can we... maybe not use AI for things like this? We're wasting people's (especially @ref's) valuable time responding to hallucinations

+1, never use AI for high stakes decisions such as this one

@salimma wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1063447: > @jflory7 wrote in #410 (comment): > > > I think the AI misled us on changing from CC BY-SA 4.0 to CC BY 4.0 > > Given it also did the FUD on Meta (which we deserve as an AI shop, I guess) ... can we... maybe _not_ use AI for things like this? We're wasting people's (especially @ref's) valuable time responding to hallucinations +1, never use AI for high stakes decisions such as this one

@ref wrote in #410 (comment):

It makes clear that spec files are under the MIT license; fine, but they're pretty thinly copyrightable (I'd argue) to begin with

@ngompa wrote in #410 (comment):

Please let's not go there. Packaging is a reflection of the software, and enough things are weird and complicated that it's hard to say something like that firmly without upsetting a lot of people.

Is there consensus about this in the distribution community? I notice that Debian, which is quite meticulous about this, explicitly has an example showing how packaging metadata can be licensed separately from the rest of the source code. Implying it does matter.

https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/#examples

@ref wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1062625: > It makes clear that spec files are under the MIT license; fine, but they're pretty thinly copyrightable (I'd argue) to begin with @ngompa wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1062628: > Please let's not go there. Packaging is a reflection of the software, and enough things are weird and complicated that it's hard to say something like that firmly without upsetting a lot of people. Is there consensus about this in the distribution community? I notice that Debian, which is quite meticulous about this, explicitly has an example showing how packaging metadata can be licensed separately from the rest of the source code. Implying it does matter. https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/#examples

There is general consensus in the packaging community that packaging data is copyrightable work. That's why the FPCA declares a default license in lieu of doing what Debian does (declare separate licensing for packaging data).

There is general consensus in the packaging community that packaging data is copyrightable work. That's _why_ the FPCA declares a default license in lieu of doing what Debian does (declare separate licensing for packaging data).
Owner

Ack on the no-ai, and fully agree it did not summarise this years-old ticket well.

Fyi that was the intent - to try to summarise the discussion in the ticket and in the discourse post so council members who were not part of the council when this ticket opened, or subsequent years it was open for, could have a kind of starting point. I am one of those said council members. The summary was never to be used as something we make a final decision on.

Regardless, Gemini did not summarise it well, or even accurately. Test failed, lesson learned 🫡

Ack on the no-ai, and fully agree it did not summarise this years-old ticket well. Fyi that was the intent - to try to summarise the discussion in the ticket and in the discourse post so council members who were not part of the council when this ticket opened, or subsequent years it was open for, could have a kind of starting point. I am one of those said council members. The summary was never to be used as something we make a final decision on. Regardless, Gemini did not summarise it well, or even accurately. Test failed, lesson learned 🫡
Owner

Regarding this ticket, I dont think we are in a position to change or remove the FPCA at this time. It is to embedded in the projects policies (packaging, elections, etc) to which we are unlikely to have any time to scope a plan on how to handle these changes properly.

I suggest we close this ticket as in-actionable for now. We may have the opportunity to revisit this topic in the near future, but right now I dont see council having capacity for this change.

Regarding this ticket, I dont think we are in a position to change or remove the FPCA at this time. It is to embedded in the projects policies (packaging, elections, etc) to which we are unlikely to have any time to scope a plan on how to handle these changes properly. I suggest we close this ticket as in-actionable for now. We may have the opportunity to revisit this topic in the near future, but right now I dont see council having capacity for this change.
Owner

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

Regarding this ticket, I dont think we are in a position to change or remove the FPCA at this time. It is to embedded in the projects policies (packaging, elections, etc) to which we are unlikely to have any time to scope a plan on how to handle these changes properly.

I suggest we close this ticket as in-actionable for now. We may have the opportunity to revisit this topic in the near future, but right now I dont see council having capacity for this change.

+1 to close as deferred. (Maybe this is worthy of a new state/ label, since we had a "deferred" close status on the previous Pagure.io repo.)

I would like to see a successor to the FPCA for the reasons that @ref outlined above. What this ticket currently lacks is a clear proposal for what comes next. The complexity of this ticket understandably makes it hard for anyone without both a deep understanding of Fedora history and a modern legal outlook on open source licensing to propose a successor to the FPCA. So, closing as deferred is sensible to me, because if we did have a concrete proposal to review and discuss, I anticipate that the Council would be more ready to vote in favor of change.

Since we have been having this discussion on-and-off since August 2022, it makes more sense to me for us to clear this ticket from the Council backlog and address other pressing matters which are more actionable than this ticket is currently.

@amoloney wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1070257: > Regarding this ticket, I dont think we are in a position to change or remove the FPCA at this time. It is to embedded in the projects policies (packaging, elections, etc) to which we are unlikely to have any time to scope a plan on how to handle these changes properly. > > I suggest we close this ticket as in-actionable for now. We may have the opportunity to revisit this topic in the near future, but right now I dont see council having capacity for this change. +1 to close as deferred. (Maybe this is worthy of a new `state/` label, since we had a "deferred" close status on the previous Pagure.io repo.) I would like to see a successor to the FPCA for the reasons that @ref outlined above. What this ticket currently lacks is a clear proposal for what comes next. The complexity of this ticket understandably makes it hard for anyone without both a deep understanding of Fedora history and a modern legal outlook on open source licensing to propose a successor to the FPCA. So, closing as _deferred_ is sensible to me, because if we did have a concrete proposal to review and discuss, I anticipate that the Council would be more ready to vote in favor of change. Since we have been having this discussion on-and-off since August 2022, it makes more sense to me for us to clear this ticket from the Council backlog and address other pressing matters which are more actionable than this ticket is currently.
jflory7 added this to the Fedora Linux 45 milestone 2026-07-27 18:17:34 +00:00
Owner

@amoloney wrote in #410 (comment):

Regarding this ticket, I dont think we are in a position to change or remove the FPCA at this time. It is to embedded in the projects policies (packaging, elections, etc) to which we are unlikely to have any time to scope a plan on how to handle these changes properly.

I suggest we close this ticket as in-actionable for now. We may have the opportunity to revisit this topic in the near future, but right now I dont see council having capacity for this change.

+1, I also agree with @amoloney to close this ticket for now

@amoloney wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/council/tickets/issues/410#issuecomment-1070257: > Regarding this ticket, I dont think we are in a position to change or remove the FPCA at this time. It is to embedded in the projects policies (packaging, elections, etc) to which we are unlikely to have any time to scope a plan on how to handle these changes properly. > > I suggest we close this ticket as in-actionable for now. We may have the opportunity to revisit this topic in the near future, but right now I dont see council having capacity for this change. +1, I also agree with @amoloney to close this ticket for now
Owner

+1 on closing and deferring to when we have capacity.

+1 on closing and deferring to when we have capacity.
Owner

Following the decision reached by Council during yesterdays meeting[1], we will close this ticket as 'deferred/wont fix'. Unfortunately council members do not have the capacity to due the necessary due diligence required to propose either an alternative to the FPCA or understand the impact of removing it, or even changing it, would cause.

[1] https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meeting_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2026-07-29/fedora-council-bi-weekly-meeting.2026-07-29-14.00.html

Following the decision reached by Council during yesterdays meeting[1], we will close this ticket as 'deferred/wont fix'. Unfortunately council members do not have the capacity to due the necessary due diligence required to propose either an alternative to the FPCA or understand the impact of removing it, or even changing it, would cause. [1] https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meeting_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2026-07-29/fedora-council-bi-weekly-meeting.2026-07-29-14.00.html
amoloney 2026-07-30 11:33:16 +00:00
Author

If no one has a strong objection, I plan to revise the Fedora documentation to make clear that the Fedora Council has made this decision despite the recommendation from Red Hat Legal, so that I can point to something the next time someone says "Red Hat supports CLAs, look at the FPCA" or "Red Hat forces Fedora to use the FPCA".

If no one has a strong objection, I plan to revise the Fedora documentation to make clear that the Fedora Council has made this decision despite the recommendation from Red Hat Legal, so that I can point to something the next time someone says "Red Hat supports CLAs, look at the FPCA" or "Red Hat forces Fedora to use the FPCA".

That seems like unnecessary verbiage to add to the documentation. If you want to have materials describing what it does and what it is not, that's fine. But "despite the recommendation from Red Hat Legal" is only going to create more confusion.

That seems like unnecessary verbiage to add to the documentation. If you want to have materials describing what it does and what it is not, that's fine. But "despite the recommendation from Red Hat Legal" is only going to create more confusion.
Owner

@ref No objections to helping keep track of history and decisions in docs, so we can avoid having the same conversations in perpetuity.

@ref No objections to helping keep track of history and decisions in docs, so we can avoid having the same conversations in perpetuity.
Owner

@ref I have no objection to put it in the FAQ section of the FPCA docs page? Maybe something like:
'Does Red Hat require Fedora to use the FPCA'?
'No, Fedora chooses to/Red Hat would prefer or whatever you think is better wording: , see council decision(ticket link).'

And I forgot the link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/legal/fpca/

@ref I have no objection to put it in the FAQ section of the FPCA docs page? Maybe something like: 'Does Red Hat require Fedora to use the FPCA'? 'No, Fedora chooses to/Red Hat would prefer or whatever you think is better wording: <insert answer here> , see council decision(ticket link).' And I forgot the link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/legal/fpca/
Sign in to join this conversation.
No milestone
No assignees
20 participants
Notifications
Due date
The due date is invalid or out of range. Please use the format "yyyy-mm-dd".

No due date set.

Dependencies

No dependencies set.

Reference
council/tickets#410
No description provided.