pboy commented

Owner

The relevant point is: The expectations on the working group are that it should contribute to the editions actually being maintained and cared for in the long term and not suddenly or abruptly disbanding. Therefore, there are special requirements for members:

They are elected
The majority opinion of the members is decisive in the event of disagreement.
Decisions should be made by those who actually do the work.
A prerequisite for nomination is that contributions have already been made.

The issue is:

We haven't seen nearly 50% of our official members here for more than two years, and they haven't contributed anything else either.

We should therefore adapt our governance in a similar way to the Workstation Group.

Regular membership 2 releases
Membership is automatically renewed:
-- upon regular participation in meetings and submission of proposals and solutions
-- or at least one contribution
Membership is discussed and decided upon at the first meeting after a release.

According this rules we would currently have following members:

Alexander Bokovoy (abbra)
Peter Boy (pboy)
Stephen Daley (mowest)
Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh)
John Himpel (jwhimpel)
Neal Gompa (ngompa)
Jan Kuparinen (copperi)
Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman)
Adam Williamson (adamw)

The relevant point is: The expectations on the working group are that it should contribute to the editions actually being maintained and cared for in the long term and not suddenly or abruptly disbanding. Therefore, there are special requirements for members: - They are elected - The majority opinion of the members is decisive in the event of disagreement. - Decisions should be made by those who actually do the work. - A prerequisite for nomination is that contributions have already been made. The issue is: We haven't seen nearly 50% of our official members here for more than two years, and they haven't contributed anything else either. We should therefore adapt our governance in a similar way to the Workstation Group. - Regular membership 2 releases - Membership is automatically renewed: -- upon regular participation in meetings and submission of proposals and solutions -- or at least one contribution - Membership is discussed and decided upon at the first meeting after a release. According this rules we would currently have following members: - Alexander Bokovoy (abbra) - Peter Boy (pboy) - Stephen Daley (mowest) - Kevin Fenzi (nirik) - Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - John Himpel (jwhimpel) - Neal Gompa (ngompa) - Jan Kuparinen (copperi) - Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - Adam Williamson (adamw)

pboy added the

meeting

label

2026-02-11 16:38:00 +00:00

kevin commented

2026-02-11 17:40:08 +00:00

Owner

I think this is all reasonable and wish I could contribute more. ;)

korora commented

2026-02-12 04:27:42 +00:00

Member

I think I know the answers to these questions, but I want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly...

Regular membership 2 releases
Membership is automatically renewed:
-- upon regular participation in meetings and submission of proposals and solutions
-- or at least one contribution

This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases.

Ones membership is automatically renewed by either A) regularly being active in the business of the working group or B) contribute in some way toward the project.

I'm just curious as to how this would affect me as I've only been working within the working group for the F43 and we are starting the F44 cycle.

I will say that I've learned a lot in the last 6 months, and I appreciate the opportunities to work with such a fine group of people and on such a great project.

I think I know the answers to these questions, but I want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly... >Regular membership 2 releases >Membership is automatically renewed: >-- upon regular participation in meetings and submission of proposals and solutions >-- or at least one contribution This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases. Ones membership is automatically renewed by either A) regularly being active in the business of the working group or B) contribute in some way toward the project. I'm just curious as to how this would affect me as I've only been working within the working group for the F43 and we are starting the F44 cycle. I will say that I've learned a lot in the last 6 months, and I appreciate the opportunities to work with such a fine group of people and on such a great project.

eseyman commented

2026-02-15 14:17:58 +00:00

Member

@korora wrote in #183 (comment):

This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases.

I would be very much in favor of renewing half the WG membership on every release. This would prevent having the WG change in its entirety in one election and it would enable someone to become a member within 6 months.

@korora wrote in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/server/tickets/issues/183#issuecomment-392363: > > This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases. I would be very much in favor of renewing half the WG membership on every release. This would prevent having the WG change in its entirety in one election and it would enable someone to become a member within 6 months.

pboy commented

2026-02-16 21:03:38 +00:00

Author

Owner

Kevin.

HOME: Weiter Einrichten lokale Mail auf Homeserver Rockserver

"more"is ever better, independent how much you already contribute. :-)

You are doing a lot, thanks for that!

Kevin. > HOME: Weiter Einrichten lokale Mail auf Homeserver Rockserver "more"is ever better, independent how much you already contribute. :-) You are doing a lot, thanks for that!

pboy commented

2026-02-16 21:12:24 +00:00

Author

Owner

Jocelyn,

This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases.

Maybe a unclear wording. I mean, we expect some kind of contribution. And if someone start to contribute, we are happy and should give credit that they will continue. And so we can decide to grant membership, as we did it in your case. And it works very well!

I'm just curious as to how this would affect me

As I intend the proposal, it affects you not at all. You are among the core members! We will for ever have differences in how much someone can contribute. That doesn't matter. And often it is more often "what" someone contributes.

Jocelyn, > This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases. Maybe a unclear wording. I mean, we expect some kind of contribution. And if someone start to contribute, we are happy and should give credit that they will continue. And so we can decide to grant membership, as we did it in your case. And it works very well! > I'm just curious as to how this would affect me As I intend the proposal, it affects you not at all. You are among the core members! We will for ever have differences in how much someone can contribute. That doesn't matter. And often it is more often "what" someone contributes.

pboy commented

2026-02-16 21:23:15 +00:00

Author

Owner

This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases.
I would be very much in favor of renewing half the WG membership on every release. This would prevent having the WG change in its entirety in one election and it would enable someone to become a member within 6 months.

My cited proposal, I think it is really a bad wording. As I write above, when someone starts to work with us and contributes, we should be able to adopt them as member. We should not impose restrictions on ourselves, but rather maintain complete flexibility.

It would be really stupid if we all left at once. That's why I came up with the idea that whoever contributes will have their membership automatically renewed. And that also applies if someone only contributes a little. We just have to document it, and maybe do so every time a new release comes out?

I am primarily concerned with those who have contributed nothing, absolutely nothing, for years.

> This means that in order to obtain membership in the WG, one must be active for at least 2 (consecutive) releases. I would be very much in favor of renewing half the WG membership on every release. This would prevent having the WG change in its entirety in one election and it would enable someone to become a member within 6 months. My cited proposal, I think it is really a bad wording. As I write above, when someone starts to work with us and contributes, we should be able to adopt them as member. We should not impose restrictions on ourselves, but rather maintain complete flexibility. It would be really stupid if we all left at once. That's why I came up with the idea that whoever contributes will have their membership automatically renewed. And that also applies if someone only contributes a little. We just have to document it, and maybe do so every time a new release comes out? I am primarily concerned with those who have contributed nothing, absolutely nothing, for years.

mowest commented

2026-02-16 21:46:54 +00:00

Member

Good points, made by everyone. I also like the practice that when someone jumps in and starts contributing or adding to the discussion, that we bring their name up for membership no matter where we are in the cycle. It seems to happen organically identifying who would like to contribute, and then mentoring to find a way for them to contribute.

Is there a way to see if past members of the working group who haven't been involved for a long time, might be contributing some where else in the Fedora project? I could see for example that someone might jump from helping out Fedora Server to help out Fedora CoreOS or Cloud because their interests take them more in that direction for a time. However, if they haven't contributed for years it might also be possible that they have moved on to a different Open Source project. I used to be involved with MX Linux (still have one computer running it) but decided that Fedora was a better fit for my "hobby free time". Of course, they could always come back, but if we have seen no interaction with Fedora for 2-3 years, we can always remove members or reach out by email to see if they are still interested and then after 30 days remove members that haven't responded (kind of like when your domain registrar eventually stops holding onto your domain after it has expired).

Good points, made by everyone. I also like the practice that when someone jumps in and starts contributing or adding to the discussion, that we bring their name up for membership no matter where we are in the cycle. It seems to happen organically identifying who would like to contribute, and then mentoring to find a way for them to contribute. Is there a way to see if past members of the working group who haven't been involved for a long time, might be contributing some where else in the Fedora project? I could see for example that someone might jump from helping out Fedora Server to help out Fedora CoreOS or Cloud because their interests take them more in that direction for a time. However, if they haven't contributed for years it might also be possible that they have moved on to a different Open Source project. I used to be involved with MX Linux (still have one computer running it) but decided that Fedora was a better fit for my "hobby free time". Of course, they could always come back, but if we have seen no interaction with Fedora for 2-3 years, we can always remove members or reach out by email to see if they are still interested and then after 30 days remove members that haven't responded (kind of like when your domain registrar eventually stops holding onto your domain after it has expired).

pboy commented

2026-02-18 16:03:24 +00:00

Author

Owner

After alle the discussions I want to make a proposal, so we can discuss it at our meeting.

Draft proposal

The Fedora Server Working Group is an independent subcommittee of FESCo with the goal of continuously maintaining and further developing Fedora Server Edition over the long term.

Contributions

Contributions can be made in many ways. These include developing utilities and configuration scripts, maintaining the build process, writing documentation, participating constructively in working group discussions and planning, providing substantive advice and technical solution options, and similar tasks. Frequency and intensity can vary greatly.

Membership

The Fedora Server Working Group has a variable number of members. Its members have expressly committed themselves to actively contributing to the long-term development and maintenance of Fedora Server Edition.

New members may be added to the Working Group by being nominated by an existing member at any time. This is usually preceded by a (substantial) contribution. In a vote, the candidate must receive a majority of positive (+1) votes cast. The quorum is 3 votes. If only 3 votes are cast, at least one +1 and none -1 votes are required. The voting period is 2 weeks.

Any Working Group member may voluntarily exit their chair at any time.

Membership terminates automatically after two years of inactivity, i.e. without contributing as described above. Immediately after the release of a new Fedora version, the working group determines which members are active according to this criterion. This determination can be made by mutual agreement in a meeting. If there is disagreement, a vote is required. Additionally, upon the recommendation of a member, the membership of an inactive member may be renewed. The decision shall follow the rules governing the admission of a new member.

The current composition of the Server Working Group can usually be found at the Server Working Group landing page.

Meetings

The Working Group meets on a regular basis to discuss current and future work and projects. Because Fedora is a global project, members of the working group may be distributed across multiple timezones. It may not be possible to find a date that suits all members. In addition, regular discussions can take place in the Server Matrix room or on the mailing list. Video calls can also be arranged for special occasions.

A tracking ticket should be created on forge.fedoraproject.org for each non-trivial item on the agenda, recording the results of the discussion and the steps to be taken.

The dates of the meetings can usually be found at the Server Working Group landing page.

Making Decisions

The Server Working Group strives to work on consensus and only vote on things where it’s clear people aren’t going to be convinced to agree.

Many of our decisions can be made through "lazy consensus." Under this model, an intended action is announced on a meeting or the mailing list, discussed, and if there is no controversy or dissenting views with a few days, simply done.

Substantial or major issues must be announced in the agenda of a public meeting and discussed and voted on there. For a meeting to be held, at least three Working Group members must be present. Votes are accepted by all participants in the meeting (not just those of Working Group members), so the community is highly encouraged to join. If a prospective participant is unable to attend a meeting, they can vote in advance in the tracking issue for that agenda item.

After alle the discussions I want to make a proposal, so we can discuss it at our meeting. # Draft proposal The Fedora Server Working Group is an independent subcommittee of FESCo with the goal of continuously maintaining and further developing Fedora Server Edition over the long term. ## Contributions Contributions can be made in many ways. These include developing utilities and configuration scripts, maintaining the build process, writing documentation, participating constructively in working group discussions and planning, providing substantive advice and technical solution options, and similar tasks. Frequency and intensity can vary greatly. ## Membership The Fedora Server Working Group has a variable number of members. Its members have expressly committed themselves to actively contributing to the long-term development and maintenance of Fedora Server Edition. New members may be added to the Working Group by being nominated by an existing member at any time. This is usually preceded by a (substantial) contribution. In a vote, the candidate must receive a majority of positive (+1) votes cast. The quorum is 3 votes. If only 3 votes are cast, at least one +1 and none -1 votes are required. The voting period is 2 weeks. Any Working Group member may voluntarily exit their chair at any time. Membership terminates automatically after two years of inactivity, i.e. without contributing as described above. Immediately after the release of a new Fedora version, the working group determines which members are active according to this criterion. This determination can be made by mutual agreement in a meeting. If there is disagreement, a vote is required. Additionally, upon the recommendation of a member, the membership of an inactive member may be renewed. The decision shall follow the rules governing the admission of a new member. The current composition of the Server Working Group can usually be found at the Server Working Group landing page. ## Meetings The Working Group meets on a regular basis to discuss current and future work and projects. Because Fedora is a global project, members of the working group may be distributed across multiple timezones. It may not be possible to find a date that suits all members. In addition, regular discussions can take place in the Server Matrix room or on the mailing list. Video calls can also be arranged for special occasions. A tracking ticket should be created on forge.fedoraproject.org for each non-trivial item on the agenda, recording the results of the discussion and the steps to be taken. The dates of the meetings can usually be found at the Server Working Group landing page. ## Making Decisions The Server Working Group strives to work on consensus and only vote on things where it’s clear people aren’t going to be convinced to agree. Many of our decisions can be made through "lazy consensus." Under this model, an intended action is announced on a meeting or the mailing list, discussed, and if there is no controversy or dissenting views with a few days, simply done. Substantial or major issues must be announced in the agenda of a public meeting and discussed and voted on there. For a meeting to be held, at least three Working Group members must be present. Votes are accepted by all participants in the meeting (not just those of Working Group members), so the community is highly encouraged to join. If a prospective participant is unable to attend a meeting, they can vote in advance in the tracking issue for that agenda item.

pboy added

in progress

and removed

meeting

labels

2026-02-20 17:13:06 +00:00

Rows
Columns

Governence review #183

Draft proposal

Contributions

Membership

Meetings

Making Decisions